Curse

nmemoric · Jul 30, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

As if two Seasons of retarded Gameplay hadn't been enough, the third Championship of gay, uhm wait this could be misunderstood - so let's better say: mirthful Assassin-Slaughtering just came to an end.

And surprisingly this time an Assassin became winner! :O
(Whoaaa I still can't believe it...)

Althought it became clear that the Assassin is the most overpowered Player-Class in HvH, at the latest when HvH-Ladder kicked off, Anet doesn't even seem to have noticed that something doesn't go well in their latest PvP-Mode.

With coming Observer-Mode and two "Championships" of Assassin-Madness there was more proof than necessary to pull of the emergency brake and stop this nonsense.

But what happened so far? - One lousy Skill-Updated which affected one common skill of HvH-Assassines: "Expose Defenses" which became 5sec more recast (oh no Assasiens are doomed ...)
And besides that - some other Assasine-Skills were even buffed!

C'mon Anet now do something already, before the next Monthly Tournament takes place and restore the intention of your Game: That Players win Championships because of their Skills and not because of their overpowered-easy-going builds!

At the moment (and this has became one really really long moment) Players are forced to play Assassins if they want to be competative and this really has to be stopped!
(Well there are two other ways which are partway successful, but I don't have to say more about Monk-Assassin with Recall; and Knockdown-Warriors are strong but doesn't keep up with Assassins...)

And if you don't manage to fix this Mode so that Players can win against others with different Classes and because of their Player-Skill ... I'd advise better not to give prices for crude inbalanced Game-Modes anymore!

Thanks.

dargon · Jul 30, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24

ANet is well aware that hero battles are currently rather lopsided towards the assassin teams. The problem is fixing things so they work ok here would potentially unbalance things elsewhere. Isaiah Cartwright (ANets skills guy) is looking into the matter though. You might want to go onto the Guildwars Wiki (wiki.guildwars.com) and actually make some suggestions rather than simply complaining it's broken.

Diddy bow · Jul 30, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

I think the design needs a rethink, the shrine thing means any normal build is not vaiable and just opens up gimmicks. On top of that hero a.i opens them up t things like sp spike because they cant use skills correctly at the right time.

lacasner · Jul 31, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

But what happened so far? - One lousy Skill-Updated which affected one common skill of HvH-Assassines: "Expose Defenses" which became 5sec more recast (oh no Assasiens are doomed ...)
And besides that - some other Assasine-Skills were even buffed!

The problem is the concept of capping, it promotes shrine-camping and uber-tankage builds which is ftl, the sins just add fuel to the already existing fire. They exist because it is so easy to gank npc's when u send them to cap. Deleat the bullshit capping or change it and the sins wont be so imba.

Onarik Amrak · Jul 31, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

I hated HB ever since they turned it into PvP for runners.

At least in the original people actually stopped to fight you.

Draikin · Jul 31, 2007, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

The problem is the concept of capping, it promotes shrine-camping and uber-tankage builds which is ftl, the sins just add fuel to the already existing fire. They exist because it is so easy to gank npc's when u send them to cap. Deleat the bullshit capping or change it and the sins wont be so imba.

That's what it comes down to. The problem is how do you keep the shrines while also allowing for 4v4 battles? As long as we need to split our team nothing will change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmemoric

That Players win Championships because of their Skills and not because of their overpowered-easy-going builds!

Who says it doesn't take skill? You can change the format all you want but you'll continue to see the same people at the top.

Chris Blackstar · Jul 31, 2007, 01:05 AM // 01:05

HvH lost all fun when the commander title and compition was introduced into the game, now only the hard core a--holes play, and play in a way that makes for fast wins or suppessed game play. The idea of capping and avoiding fighting, and being able to win that way defeats all purpose of why HvH was introduced. Now it's lost it's meaning.

Well Anet I guess it's business as usual, no fun for the casual gamer, but plenty of meaningless, boring compotition for the few, the proud, the elete hard core gamer.

Thanks for nothing

lacasner · Jul 31, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

So your mad that people are good?

Evilsod · Jul 31, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

So your mad that people are good?

I think you've completely missed the point of this thread...

Quote:

Who says it doesn't take skill? You can change the format all you want but you'll continue to see the same people at the top.

Its called the Commander title... it ruined HvH in the same way Glad points have ruined RA. The same skilless tools will be there until they change the rewards or fix the broken skills.

lacasner · Jul 31, 2007, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

I think you've completely missed the point of this thread...

Lol...i was responding to the fact that the person before me stated he disliked "hard-core players" playing, which means he's mad that the game isn't "noob friendly". It's like hes saying that hes mad good people came.

DarkNecrid · Jul 31, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I think you've completely missed the point of this thread...

Its called the Commander title... it ruined HvH in the same way Glad points have ruined RA. The same skilless tools will be there until they change the rewards or fix the broken skills.

The same "skillless" tools will still be there, using other broken builds.

And you'll still be the same low ranked guy whining about it.

Evilsod · Jul 31, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Yes because truly rank is what matters... its not how you actually got there. I'm happy with been just below rank4... better than been a rank 9 who got there using blood spike or IWAY. Think you'll find i'm the better player if you compare the 2.

evenfall · Jul 31, 2007, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Izzy posted his current take on what should be changed for the SP sin in the upcoming skill balance on his wiki talkpage:

Assassin:
Black Lotus Strike: 12r -> 18r
Black Spider Strike: 5e -> 10e
Deaths Charge: 45r -> 30r
Dark Prison: 45r -> 30r
Shadow Prison: 4..10s -> 1..10s

Xx_Sorin_xX · Jul 31, 2007, 02:49 AM // 02:49

It'll never be perfect, but yea it needs a bit of fixing. You can win w/o touching the opponent if your running builds are good enough. While that may sound like whining..isn't HB supposed to be PvP? Or atleast it was an attempt at PvP.

Probably not the first to think this, but i've thought that maybe making the center shrine 3 pips might help, but then you run into the issue of extremely annoying spirit/defensive builds camping that.

Imo give us more heroes to use in HB only. that way you can have several chars and 1 person spikes (asns) probably wont be able to kill as effectively, and really get rid of cap shrines. Perhaps set it up more like GvG. Have 2 bases, and the goal is to control the other person's base as long as possible, like a point system for holding the base (kind of like AB), but also give the 50% damage boost and reduction in your own base. That way they'll have a much harder time camping opponent's base if they manage to wipe them out somewhere else, and whoever gained the most points when timer runs out/reached max amount of points wins. but thats an altogether different idea from HB and would probably take a lot of reprogramming..

NeHoMaR · Jul 31, 2007, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Nerfing assassins is NOT the solution of Heroes' Battles. That sh*t overused build 90% of people use was after the update making all shrines counting. Ironically, that update was implemented because another "overused" build for holding center, but now is really worst because holding thing wasn't used by 90% of people. So, if ArenaNet revert to capture center only, I am sure the things will be better, a lot of people will using the holding anyway, but not 90%, and because you don't need run anymore, you can make a LOT of useful and fun different builds and not a clone.

deluxe · Jul 31, 2007, 06:53 AM // 06:53

HvH would maybe become fun if they throw out the shrine capping, and actually let people FIGHT EACHOTHER...

NeHoMaR · Jul 31, 2007, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

HvH would maybe become fun if they throw out the shrine capping, and actually let people FIGHT EACHOTHER...

You can bet I will be there all day if they completely remove the needing of capturing shrines. Shrines can still be present giving you bonus if you capture, but never points making you win without a kill. That way all holding will end, the old one, and the new one, and people will be fighting again, there are no battles in Heroes' Battles, the only battle is with the heroes' flags! and bodyblocking an idiot hero in a corner and kill it; Who think that is enjoyable for a long period of time? I just left HB completely.

Normally ArenaNet listen, but with this one they look like ignoring us completely, why? they know 90% of people with the same clone build is wrong, it's impossible to tolerate!

Renegade26 · Jul 31, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Tbh, I still think that it should have been TA with the obs mode and rewards. HvH is poor because the Heroes cant pre prot against Shadow Prisons, and once theyve taken damage they are KDed from Horns of the Ox.

TA would be a much better option for the obs mode and rewards, and Im hoping that that can be added in the future. Heroes are far too stupid.

Shadis · Jul 31, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade26

Tbh, I still think that it should have been TA with the obs mode and rewards. HvH is poor because the Heroes cant pre prot against Shadow Prisons, and once theyve taken damage they are KDed from Horns of the Ox.

TA would be a much better option for the obs mode and rewards, and Im hoping that that can be added in the future. Heroes are far too stupid.

It boggles my mind as to why TA is left to rot while Hero Battles get so much attention.

Chris Blackstar · Jul 31, 2007, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Lol...i was responding to the fact that the person before me stated he disliked "hard-core players" playing, which means he's mad that the game isn't "noob friendly". It's like hes saying that hes mad good people came.

I don't dislike hard core players, but define hard core players, you see there are two kinds. The ones who are skilled, and the ones who are whinners with no life, and rub it in your face when then win, in a cheap way, mind you. Or complain when they lose.

The fact is that there are more of the second kind out there, those players I can't stand, they make PvP a chore. Who wants to play against someone, when you can't have fun, it becomes boring.

And what is with this NOOB talk, the game is very friendly to new players, it's the players who are not friendly to new players, especially the hard core asses. I was in fact one of the first players to use sins as a way to win in HvH, until the commander title was introduced. Then it came to the point that players would play dice to determain a winner to gain commander ranks.

Then Anet gave us tornaments, and shine capping became the norm of winning. I say lose shine capping, and come up with 12 different short battle games, then have three rounds, each round consisting of a different game, and determine the winner as the first person to win two rounds. Also have the games show up in random order.